Building Your Therapy Business In Between Sessions with Lauren Larkin

Lauren Larkin [00:00:00]:

If it's really for the client and you can come up with the reasons for why it's for the client and why it's, like, conducive to their treatment, disclosure is okay.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:00:10]:

This is Heard Business School, where we sit down with private practice owners and industry experts to learn about the business of therapy together. I'm your host, Michael Fulwiler. Building a private practice is one thing, but how do you build a brand as a therapist online? My guest on today's episode of Heard Business School, Lauren Larkin, is a masterclass in this. If you've seen her viral content on social media or had the opportunity to consult with her, you know she's a rising star in the therapy world. In addition to being the founder of a thriving group practice in New York City, Lauren provides business consulting services and supervision for clinicians. She also hosts meetups for therapists at restaurants, coffee shops, and even a yoga studio. Her journey has been enriched by her personal experience with an eating disorder in her twenties, which inspired her to become a therapist dedicated to helping others. During our conversation, she shares valuable insights on managing client caseloads, strategic financial planning, the benefits of virtual practice, and effective marketing tactics.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:01:17]:

Please be advised that this episode contains sensitive discussions about eating disorders, which may be triggering for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised. With that said, here's my conversation with Lauren Larkin. Enjoy. Lauren Larkin, welcome to the show.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:01:34]:

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to talk about this.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:01:37]:

So excited to have you on. I love your content on TikTok and Instagram. I think I saw a reel that you had posted on Instagram that went viral. It was the wortherapist reel. And I don't know if it showed up in my for you page or I therapist that I follow and shared it, but I just think you're. You're doing great stuff there.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:01:58]:

Thank you. That was one that I was, like, awoken in the middle of the night because I had seen, like, only one or two of the, like, we're whoever videos. I think it was where guys was the first one, and then I saw were girls, and I wrote it in the middle of the night and texted my intern, Sophia, and I was like, how do you feel about supervision with the side of Tiktoking on Thursday? We need to create this. I think this is gonna be funny. And she was like, I'm ready. Let me just pick out my outfit. So props to her for being there with me for that one.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:02:30]:

That's great. It's wild how fast those trends move, because now that trend is, like, old news at this point, right? So it seems like something that you really have to jump on.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:02:39]:

Absolutely. That would be my, I know we're skipping around, but that would be my biggest advice for anybody on social media, is that if you want to do something that's trending, you have to do it as soon as humanly possible if it's going to be two weeks later. I personally, I'm just like, that was a good idea, but it's over now. I didn't have any time to do it right.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:02:57]:

Yeah, I think people overthink it and then wait too long. We'll talk about social media. We'll get to that. Before we get into that, before you went to graduate school at NYU to become a therapist, you actually worked in marketing. Do you feel like that experience has helped you now as a business owner?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:03:14]:

Absolutely. So I went to undergrad in Nashville, Tennessee. I originally thought maybe I could try to do the singer acting thing because that was always something I was really into when I was growing up. And then I got to Nashville and I was like, oh, no, everybody is amazing, and I am the worst. So I was like, how can I pivot to be a part of the entertainment scene, but also have a steady job and not feel terrible about myself all the time? And I thought printhead kind of marketing would be a good way to enter into that space. And then as life goes, you end up in spaces that you never thought you would be in. I did work with, you know, lifestyle and working on social media pages for other people throughout my, like, early on career, and that was always really fun for me. It came really naturally to me.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:04:10]:

So I feel like the experience of sort of trying to build up content calendar for someone else and create content really helped me, because then once you are the product, it's super easy, right? You're a little bit more authentic in being able to come up with your voice and create stuff. So I feel like my social media presence in marketing, my business, is sort of like a combination of many different lives that I've lived. Like, the acting and creating and writing is just a part of me that I've always had. I always wanted to pursue deep down. And then it's like, you know, the performance piece of it comes in handy with, like, the then educational piece from grad school and what I know from being a therapist, and then, you know, just trying to, like, be fun and funny and see if anybody catches on. And so far they have, which has been really nice. And then it feels like, I think what's helpful for my business about that is I think people have come to know and trust me a little bit from the space that I've created online and the transparency that I've kind of tried to have as much as possible while still maintaining my own boundaries and having a life. And then that's what's been great for me, to be able to grow my business and say, hey, I'm not accepting new clients, but I have these amazing people that I work with every single day.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:05:34]:

I'm texting with them, I'm helping them with their caseloads if they need any help. And if you trust me, as I hope you might, maybe you'll trust them and maybe you'll have a good relationship with them and they could meet your therapeutic needs. So I feel like, best way for me to grow my business personally and then through social, I've actually just networked with a lot of people on the ground. And networking on the ground, I feel like every therapist will tell you, is some of the most lucrative ways to build your business because trust safety referral networks are so important for us. So it's kind of been twofold in that way. Like, yes, the social piece of it has helped me grow my business from getting clients, but it's also helped me network and connect with other therapists and psychiatrists and dietitians and people who are all in that space. And when you're starting out and trying to figure out where the heck can I find clients, that tends to be like, the more, like, on the ground, pitching yourselves cold emailing people based too.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:06:30]:

Definitely. I love that you've been able to tap into that creativity as a content creator. You can tell, like, when someone is creating content on social media and they're having fun with it. Like, it just comes through as authentic. And I think that's probably why people resonate with it.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:06:48]:

It is fun. It's super fun. And it's funny to think about. I've always like, I should probably put a blooper reel together of me in this office with the camera. Like, being like, I don't know, maybe that was okay. Like, sometimes I'm talking to myself and I'm like, I should probably put these in there because really just so silly when the finished product comes out and I'm like, that was just like me messing around for 20 minutes in between sessions. Literally.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:07:14]:

No. It is so funny. I often wonder about that with content creators, like, who's actually recording this video? Like, is there someone else in the room? Or is it just that they've set up a camera. And also, sometimes, you know, if you're recording content with trending audio, like, you record the video without the audio first, and then just to see, like, the video without it on its own is also pretty funny.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:07:37]:

So funny.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:07:40]:

So you go to graduate school, you graduate, and then you work at a group practice. What was that experience like for you? And was private practice always the end goal?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:07:51]:

I was gung ho private practice from the beginning. I knew exactly what I wanted to do. That comes from me working in the entrepreneurship space before going back to school and honestly taking up very, very high amounts of loans to go back to school. I knew for sure that I wanted to be financially successful while also still helping people. And I had had an experience in an inpatient eating disorder facility personally. So for me, the idea of working on the other side, like, in a hospital or in a residential or higher level of care, did not appeal to me because I was like, I know what it's like to be a patient in this area. I don't particularly want to be a therapist working in this setting. So I'd had personal experience in that space, and I was like, this space is not for me.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:08:42]:

I love the one on one work, and I love the idea of having my own practice, and I love the idea of being a business owner. From the jump, I had contacted my, like, internship coordinator at NYU, and I was like, I really, really, really want to be in private practice. If there's anything that you can do to get me in private practice, that would be great. And I also did the LMHC trap, which I had thought, and maybe this is incorrect, but I had thought would be better for placement into a private practice, because with the social work degree, I do think that hospitals and settings, like higher level of care, levels of care are more likely to be placed in those areas. So I was like, please put me in a private practice. I will do anything. And then I interviewed with doctor Marnie Cooper, who was amazing. He was also a professor at NYU.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:09:31]:

And it's so funny to think about, like, pre Covid times and, like, how I, like, got so dressed up for this interview, and I was like, try to be so professional now. I'm, like, in pajama pants doing my job every day. But I remember going in that interview and really trying to nail it. And he was like, yeah, let's definitely do this together. It practically become an internship in a private practice setting. And I worked for him at his group practice as he was kind of growing his group practice as I came on for my licensure hours. I also worked for another group practice because you got to hustle, and I have a hustler. It's hard to get those hours.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:10:12]:

It's hard to, you know, market yourself as a pre licensed clinician. Some industries, I think, besides, you can't even market yourself at all until you are fully licensed. LMHCs or MHC LP is. You can market yourself. You just have to do it appropriately. And you have to say, I'm not fully licensed yet. But it's so hard. Like, how do you convince somebody to let you be their therapist if you're openly admitting all the time that you're not fully licensed yet? So I worked for the therapy group in Philly, actually, but I was one of their New York clinicians, virtually for the rest of my pre licensed hours.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:10:49]:

And then Jen, they actually have a podcast, the shrink chicks. They're absolutely amazing, and they're. They taught me a lot about marketing as well, through the social media space, just from observing how authentically and ethically they, like, talk about mental health topics. Then I stepped away from Marty's practice and decided I was going to go take, you know, the clients that I had built up on my own from that practice onto my own practice. And I told Evan Jen about it, and I was like, I still would like to day on with you guys before service, if that works for you. And this is after I gained my license. So I was in, like, about, like, six months of having my license, but still working for other practices. And I was like, I'm also going to start, like, marketing my own practice and, like, be on TikTok and eventually Instagram, which I didn't know this at the time.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:11:37]:

And Ellie and Jen were like, do it. Like, we support you no matter what. Like, do your thing. We want whatever's best for you, which I'm very grateful for, because you hear some horror stories in this space. Despite all that's being in mental health, there are sometimes not experiences like mine. And then I think I had my very first video go viral, and after that, I had a really long waitlist. And it was around the same time that I was thinking about expanding and maybe having an intern or starting, you know, to hire. So that was when I made the decision of, okay, it doesn't make sense to do fee for service anymore.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:12:13]:

I'm going to do my practice full time. And then I started hiring, like, right away. So it was like, a very, very fast turnaround time for me from license to my practice to my practice full time to, oh, my God, now I'm going to have people that work with me. And I said, we're going to figure it out as we go because I don't know what I'm doing. So every single day I've told them from the beginning, like, I am going to figure this out with you, and if I'm too much of a shit show for you, please let me know and I will totally understand. And luckily, that has not been the feedback so far.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:12:51]:

How did you navigate that transition from working at a group? You said that you told your clients you were going out on your own. Is that something that, like, are there rules that you need to navigate when it comes to that? When you're transitioning out of a group practice? I know there's non competes that some groups have. So you're not, you know, poaching clients necessarily from the group.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:13:12]:

How does that work actually going away in New York now, which I think is necessary and important, and I think that there's many different ways that practice owners and practitioners can go about it. I think some of the best ways that I've heard of it are like, you know, giving a certain amount of notice so that the owners of the practice can maybe backlog and fill a new clinician so that they can, like, make up for the lost clients and that they're not totally in the hole. And that's how I've told if my clinicians ever want to leave, I'm like, can you guys just give me, like, a couple months? Like, you can keep me posted on, like, where your thoughts are? Because I will totally support you. I just want to be able to, now that I'm on the other side of it, understand? Like, okay, that's what I'm going to need to do to make sure that I don't have this huge gap in income in the practice overall. And I'm not, like, scrambling. So I just tried to be as open and transparent as possible. I didn't know how the conversations were going to go or what the expectation was going to be, so I had just kind of, like, prepared for either way what I was going to try to do. And, yeah, my situation isn't very common where you get the full blessing of the practice owners to do whatever's best for the client.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:14:24]:

I think it should be because at the end of the day, the client and the therapists are the two that have worked really hard on this relationship together. And I think it can be really harmful when those options are not always given. If that makes sense. And then there's also something to consider, which is like when you're leaving a practice, whether or not someone can go with you if you're increasing your fee, maybe for that client, it would be more beneficial for them to stay at the practice and work with somebody who's pre licensed under that group practice or licensed under that group practice, if thats where the fee match would be, rather than saying, hey, come with me, and now my fee is going to increase by this much. We want to keep those things into consideration. And also, I think when transitions happen, it also gives a good time to reflect on where theyre at, and maybe they need less care at this point. Maybe they do want to step down to bi weekly. Maybe they are feeling good and they might want to take a break for a little while.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:15:23]:

I think a lot of those things are all options that are presented when there's a big transition. So now when I'm doing sort of like business consultations with people who are transitioning to private practice, I always kind of like outline how they might want to approach each client differently when they're making this jump and keeping in mind what might be best for the client and best for them while they're like trying to, of course, see where they're going to be at in terms of their income and what they need for themselves. I'm always like, make a spreadsheet with all the different fees and how many times each client tends to come and who you think might really want to come with you and who you might think would prefer to stay and see where you're at, and then that'll help you decide. How much marketing do you need to do? Who do you need to be talking to? Who do you need to have, like, ready in the wings when you like, go to Flydenne because there could be a gap there where you're not making as much as you need in your life. You might need to prepare for that investment.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:16:23]:

That makes sense. I imagine insurance is another big factor. If you're working for a group practice that takes insurance, and then you start your own practice and you're out of network, then maybe those clients would prefer to stay with the group and work with a therapist who still takes their insurance totally.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:16:40]:

So it's like you want to just kind of keep all those things in mind when you're preparing and having those conversations with clients. It can be some of the scariest things ever to do because as the therapist, I feel like we have the same kind of like, do no harm mentality and ethical code as like, a doctor does. But then we have this, like, really deep, like a weekly, like, meeting with these people and we have a real relationship with them. And then it's like, also reminded, this is my business and it's like a very awkward thing to have to tell people. And I think that that is the delicate balance that a mental health professional has to keep in mind during some of these harder conversations.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:17:23]:

It is a unique relationship, for sure. I imagine that comes up when you're raising your fees as well. If you feel like a client potentially can't afford to pay a higher fee, and then you feel guilt about that because you've built this rapport and relationship with them, how have you navigated that dynamic?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:17:41]:

I am the worst, I would say, at my practice. I'm so good at telling my clinicians, you deserve to raise your feet, you deserve to keep your fee where it is. You deserve to ask for what you're worth. And then I'm like, well, I can't do that to them. No, I'm not going to do it. I did commit.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:17:57]:

Whatever you can pay is fine. Yeah.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:18:01]:

I did commit. I think I am going to raise my fees maybe at the end of the year with my clients because I'm stepping into this space where it's amazing and I've had new opportunities that are coming my way that are very high paying. And I'm getting these emails like, hey, can you do this on Thursday? And I'm like, oh, my God, if that is more than what my clients are bringing in, I probably should be taking an opportunity like this. But then first and foremost, I'm a therapist. That's like the main thing in my bio, right? That's what my job is. So how can I rectify and rationalize the new opportunities that are coming in and also the hourly client work that I'm doing with my clients? And I think I'm lucky because my clients have been super flexible with me. Whether they know it's coming up for me or not, they don't. I'm not saying, hey, this cool social media opportunity thing came up for me and I need to move you, but I have been really lucky with the people that I work with are generally very flexible.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:19:01]:

Um, and I think that raising your rates can be a way of making less burnout in your life as a therapist. Like, if you feel like you're making what you're worth, you are going to be a lot more motivated every single day and show up and be really, really present with your clients. Obviously, that comes at a range of many different fees, and then we have to do it ethically. Where if someone cannot afford your fee, is it appropriate to say you're out if you can't pay for this? I tend to do it as, like, we can see each other less frequently if that works for you. And, of course, that has to be if it's appropriate to the client and what the treatment is that they need, if that makes sense. So I think that there's many different ways that you can increase your fees, but those are the hardest, some of the hardest conversations to have with clients.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:19:51]:

I think that makes sense. I want to go back to the formation of your practice. You mentioned that you posted on TikTok pretty quickly, had a post go viral, then you had people contacting you, which is pretty amazing. What were the other tactical steps that you took? Did you form a business entity? I know New York has pretty strict rules. My understanding is you actually have to put an ad in the newspaper for, like, a certain amount of time. Like, crazy. What were the other steps that you took?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:20:25]:

Yeah, I'm reading the, like, requirements to this. Like, how the hell does one put an ad in the news in a publication? I paid somebody to do that. I said, whatever you. Because I tried to put it in the paperwork once myself. I got returned to me, and then I said, nope, never again outsourced. For. The thing is that you are not good at Lauren. But, yes, you need a PLLC in order to hire other professionals in the state of New York and City of New York, I believe.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:20:52]:

So that was step one. While I was working as a sole practitioner, I had just a tax id and was working as a sole proprietor because your license and your name allow you to work under just yourself. And then I knew I wanted to hire eventually, so I filed for the PLLC, and then it took, like, four months, six months, maybe even, to come through. It took forever. So it was actually really funny because Sam was my first official licensed hire, and Sophia, I mentioned her before, was my first intern, and they ended up starting around the same time. But I had my first call with Sam, and I said, I would love to hire you. You come highly recommended from Lindsey, my friend. I love this idea.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:21:40]:

I think that an eating disorder clinician would be perfect for a handoff for me, because I have that as one of my pillars of content, and I'm seeing a lot of inquiries come through for that. But I don't know when I can hire you because this paperwork is taking forever. So she actually quit her job and would like taking a very big leap of faith on me, waiting around for my PlC to come through. And it was like a text of like, okay, we can start. Let me just call my lawyer and get you the contract ASAP, and then let's go. But it was that weird waiting period where I was like, I really want to utilize this waitlist that I have. I really want these people to not, you know, have to wait if they've not found another clinician and or would love to have Sam start as soon as humanly possible. And then Sophia ended up starting at the same time.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:22:31]:

And I was, this was stressful, but I was going on vacation right before that, and it was like this crazy September that it's like, okay, all of this is happening at once. But those are the logistics that you kind of need. You need a. To have a PLLC, or I think some people have been telling me that they've been recommended to have a PC as well. I don't know if that's different from New York City to New York City. I have no idea. But one of those, and then you need to have a lawyer create some paperwork for you that has, like, all of the required, you know, employee onboarding jargon that you need for each state that I would never know how to write myself. So that was another thing.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:23:12]:

Outsourced, big expense on the front end. But then my lawyer was like, but hopefully you never have to talk to me again. But I was like, I love you for that. He was like, this is evergreen. This is stuff you can use forever. So each and every one of your contractors moving forward will be able to use this paperwork, and you are good to go. Those are like those big expenses that come from the front end, and then you get to just start running a practice.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:23:39]:

Just crazy to clarify for listeners. So every state has their own rules when it comes to business entities, just like every state has their own rules when it comes to licensing. And you need to be licensed in every state as a therapist. So in most states, you can incorporate and form an LLC. That's what a lot of therapists do. But in some states, New York being one of them, Texas being another, as a licensed professional, if you do want to form a business entity, a PLLC instead of an LLC, which is just a professional LLC. Now, California, you're unable to form either a PLLC or an LLC. You actually have to form a professional corporation.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:24:25]:

So it really just depends on where you live. The advice that we always give to therapists at Heard is talk to a professional. This is really a legal question more than an accounting one, but absolutely, I think it's a great investment to your point, especially if you're planning on hiring at some point to work with a lawyer, sit down with a tax professional, just like, get that advice early on to avoid headache and mistakes down the road.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:24:52]:

That's one of the trickiest things with being asked so many questions on TikTok in particular. And I have a little, like, advice for therapists, pillar of content, and I'm like, this is in the state of New York. Please, please look up the information for your own state on your state's website. There's like an office of professions website for every single state and every single license requirement, and social work versus ID versus LMHC or LPC, I believe, is the other one. So it's like, I am not an encyclopedia, and I can only really speak from my own experience. And it's a little overwhelming when everybody asks you questions because it's like, I never branded myself as an expert on being a therapist or having therapeutic advice or giving that. So I think I tend to err on the side of caution whenever those questions are asked. And I'll just say, this is my experience.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:25:49]:

Please, please, please look it up in your own state, because I don't want anybody to get in trouble because they saw a TikTok of mine and decided to do something that wasn't right.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:25:58]:

Definitely. We put disclaimers on everything. There's a disclaimer on the show, this is not professional advice. This is not legal advice. Speak with a professional. Yep. So I want to talk about the fact that you've grown your practice to five clinicians in under two years, which is unheard of. It sounds like early on you built this waitlist and then you brought on associates and interns.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:26:25]:

Has that kind of been the case as you've continued to grow your business? And I'm curious how things have changed, because initially, I imagine people were reaching out to work with you, and now you have this group practice with other therapists. So how do you. How do you manage that?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:26:41]:

Yeah, so thank you for saying that. It's crazy. I actually have Sam coming up on her one year, so we're just a little baby practice, and I did not intend to grow as quickly as we have. It's mostly just been like a supply and demand need for more therapists. Situation and inquiries, they ebb and blow, and every therapist will tell you that whether they're solo or group, I really think that it's hard to have a very steady stream of inquiries because people are looking at different times. We never really can anticipate it. I always thought that September would be a big time for us. And then it came last year and I was like, crickets.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:27:22]:

And I'm like texting the girls, like, I'm so sorry. I really thought that there would be more back to school inquiries. And they're like, it's fine. Most people know that the nature of the game is that it takes a while to build a caseload, but. So the reason, yes, for hiring the first two hires that I had was that I had a waitlist and Sam was the biggest rock star I've ever seen in converting someone who wants to work with me to her. She's like the queen of the 15 minutes consultation call. She was like, booked another one, booked another one. Booked another one.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:27:55]:

And I was like, wow, you are an actual superstar. And Sophia, I was very, very clear and ethical on all of my bases about telling people that she is still in grad school, which is a harder sell. So her caseload took a while longer to build and that is okay. And that is still the case, right? Because she is still an intern. So I think the transference from one clinician to another can be a huge drop off. People are like, no, I would really only like to work with you. Or they're like, okay, maybe I'll give it a try. And I think that's where the 15 minutes free phone call really comes in handy.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:28:32]:

We always try to email within 24 hours of an inquiry coming through so that people don't get cold feet and we can hopefully get them on the phone as quickly as possible. Because I think once you have that in person touch point, it helps to convert much quicker. And then I decided to continue to hire because it's going to sound like I'm like, TikTok therapist extraordinaire here. I'm really not trying to pay for social studies this way, but I had the war therapist video go viral and honestly, it happened at a very inconvenient time because I was supposed to be spending the weekend with my best friend, visiting her in Charlotte, North Carolina. And the amount of inquiries that were coming through were insane. I had to sit down the morning after we went out for dinner and drinks and to be like, I'm going to need to spend like 2 hours sending emails right now. And she was like, okay, I'll make you copy. I was like, I was so sorry.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:29:26]:

I wasn't planning on this. So then once the two of my clinicians were fully full and, like, honestly, I don't want to over promise either. Once the one had a number of calls. It's like you don't want to have too many clients because you don't want your clinicians to burn out, but you also don't want to have not enough clients. That delicate dance that you're playing at all times, especially with eating disorders. If people have higher level of care needs, we understand that we're not going to see them for a while. So being in that specialty is also kind of, like, precarious because you're dealing with higher risk clients that, you know, might need more care at a certain point. But then we had another really long wait list, and I put out some feelers for another licensed clinician because I was seeing that, I think a lot of people wanted to work with somebody who was on the same level as me, and I didn't even really get that many applications because I think a lot of people who do send me their applications are pre licensed and want to be supervised by me.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:30:27]:

And Sam had someone that she had worked with at Montenegro, and that's how Caroline joined us. So it's all been very, like, close to home in the hires that I've made, and that's been helpful because there's been a lot of, like, trust and safety there in terms of, like, someone that you know or someone that has vouched for the person that you're about to bring on. And then I just hired MJ, who is amazing, and I told her I was not hiring, I was not planning to hire. And then I was looking at where everybody was at in terms of caseload, and I was like, I really don't actually know what I'm going to do with any inquiries that come in from now on. We were just about to start another waitlist, so she had reached out, and she's actually a bilingual therapist, which expands our reach and expands the diversity of my team, which is amazing, because right now we don't really represent the diverse community that is in New York, and I would like to do that as we continue to grow. And so it just felt like this could be a really great fit. I've had her meet with everybody else on the team, and Cs was a good fit with them, and they were, like, flying colors. So she just is waiting to join us when her paperwork comes through, and she already has three clients booked for her first week, which, again, I feel like I have a team of superstars because that's, like, kind of unheard of, and she's been great, too, because she was like, the other job I was going to take was going to make me make all of my own marketing and kind of find all of my own clients.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:32:01]:

So she's like, anything that you're doing is great by me. So I think I've gotten a little less stressed about filling people as we've gone on.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:32:09]:

That makes sense. And I imagine because you're hiring pre licensed therapists that the implication is that these therapists are training under you. They have a similar vibe and style to you. So if someone is resonating with your content, like working with a therapist who's part of your practice is a similar experience, that's the hope.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:32:31]:

And I would, if we do get bigger, would like to, you know, expand niches and have other areas of focus and experts in different areas of therapy that are not just trauma, eating disorders, relationship issues and anxiety. But it's nice to be known for something and have a niche as well. And I think that that's the biggest, like, Instagram TikTok marketing advice I see out there from other, you know, business coaches and, you know, people who are trying to give therapist advice is like, really niche down. And I think that that's true in a way. Right. Like, if you are known for something in the therapeutic space, then you're going to continue to get inquiries and word of mouth because you're going to be the blank therapist or a yemenite eating disorder therapist, which I think is actually kind of a niche in the virtual private practice type of realm. And a lot of people are, like, afraid to work with eating disorders because of the risk. But luckily, I've got experts on my team, so I'm like, we're not afraid.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:33:34]:

Send them over.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:33:36]:

Yeah. I was assuming that it would be challenging to get clients in a city like New York that has so many therapists, but it sounds like sort of the other side of that is, well, there's just, like, also a lot of people. So there's a lot of potential clients. Could you talk a little bit about that? Like the experience of building a practice in a major city?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:34:00]:

Yeah. I think that there, for me, even just going on social media, at first I thought, I don't want to do this because there's too many people on there. It's an oversaturated market. What do I have to say that's really so different than anybody else? And then I started creating and I was like, I have a lot to say. And I think that there's something amazing about this idea that there is plenty of pieces of pie to go around for many different therapists, we can all support each other's needs in such an amazing way because truly so many people need therapy. A city like New York is filled with so, so, so many people, and each therapist can only see, like, 20 or 18 to 30 clients a week, right? So that's pretty much 18 to 30 people or maybe a few more if you have, like, bi weeklies versus weeklies. But that's not that many people when you really, really think about it. So if you have good marketing out there and good relationships with therapists and doctors and dietitians and psychiatrists, and even have a place to put friends of clients that you're already working with, with your other therapists or acquaintances, and you have, like, that kind of network going around, there can be a lot of, like, ways that your internal web can get you the clients that you need and continue to have referrals going your way.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:35:29]:

And then I think that there's just, like, so many different areas of New York state as well that people don't even think about that. We have to remember that as virtual clinicians, we can work all over. So, yes, I have a lot of people that are in New York City, but without an office and without the commute to an office. I see people in Brooklyn, I see people in upstate New York. I see people on Long island. Like, there's a lot more than just your little county if you're marketing to it. But I think that people kind of, like, forget about that because it's like you want to think about close to home.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:36:05]:

Oh, that makes sense. You've been very open on instagram about your experience struggling with an eating disorder, which I really appreciate. Can you talk about how that experience has impacted both you as a therapist and also the types of clients that you work with?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:36:24]:

Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, that was the whole reason that I went back to school to become a therapist was because I had struggled with an eating disorder. And I think bouts of depression and overall anxiety, that is all related to the eating disorder basically my whole life. And I still think about just the lack of knowledge and language that I had around what was happening to me, when it was happening to me. Like, I did not have words or thoughts to describe the patterns that were happening. So even just the idea of how far we've come when it comes to eating disorders, to be able to share information like that and to be able to talk about them, although I will say content around this really gets censored and it's a little bit frustrating as a creator who's actually trying to shed light on this information when your content is blocked, when you're not creating harm, when there's so many other harmful creators out there talking about being skinny and calorie counting and like finding your waist and all these themes that we're seeing, especially given close to summer right now. So it can be challenging to talk about. But I still keep trying to do it even when I feel like my content's being blocked and my views are suffering from it.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:37:37]:

Because I'm like, this is something that I have to talk about because it's my experience. I can talk about it a little bit more candidly, I can talk about it a little bit more without like, such a broad disclaimer because I'm speaking about me and yes, I'm speaking about me and I'm a therapist. I'm going to tell you every time that my experience might be different from your experience, but that's the one I think. Freedom, that I have to say, you actually can't challenge me on this one because this is my story and this is how I felt in those moments with clients. It helps me as a clinician because I was supported by my previous supervisor, Doctor Cooper, to disclose because I started my own little website when I was an intern or LP or maybe even just after I went to treatment for my eating disorder and like started writing about it a little bit. So I always had some space in the world where I was open about this part of my life. And he gave me some of the best advice I think I've ever gotten as a clinician, which was, he said, what would happen if your clients found this information and you didn't share it with them? Do you think that that would be a rupture? That if they were talking to you about their eating disorder, telling you how alone they felt in these thoughts and feelings, and you were just sitting there validating more. So as like a very like, blank wait.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:39:04]:

Or as a professional in the room, do you think that that would hurt them and hurt the relationship if they googled you tomorrow and said, wait, why did she never tell me that she struggled with this too? And so I started just saying on consult calls when it came up. I just want you to know that I have actually struggled from an eating disorder myself. I wont bring it into the room with you unless you ask me questions about it or you want to know anything or etcetera. But I want you to know that about me before we start because I hear you, I see you. I understand this experience on a personal level, and that's sometimes the most I'll say about it. And then sometimes the clients will be like, well, you know. And I'll say, I really do too know. Or it'll help me with challenging when I will say, I know how hard this is, but we really need to focus on these thoughts or focus on this behavior, and we really need to give it some space today.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:40:04]:

Are you okay with me challenging you in this way? And I think it gives that relatability and the understanding that I'm not doing this because I'm judging you and trying to shame you. I'm doing this because I do know how hard it is, and I do know how sneaky these thoughts can be. And I'm coming from a personal perspective here. So that's really helped me, and I think it's helped me reach people who have struggled with some of the same things. And maybe they haven't quite learned the language for it yet, but I'm trying to share it openly or as openly as I can without being censored by these algorithms.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:40:39]:

That perspective is so interesting because I feel like historically, what therapists have been taught and the narrative around self disclosure is what you said, that they should be a blank slate and they shouldn't disclose. But actually withholding can be harmful if it does hurt a client or maybe impact that trust that they have with you, that they're opening up about all these things and you haven't shared anything with them. And just that dynamic of the therapeutic relationship is always challenging, right? Because you're always going to know more about the client than they know about you. And I'm curious, like, when is self disclosure too much? Or how do you think about that boundary?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:41:22]:

So we learn, or, I learned. The question that you ask yourself about self disclosure before you open your mouth in a session is, is this about me, or is this about the client? What is my intention behind sharing this? If it is more about me trying to relate or me trying to talk about me, zip it, right? That's not the space for self disclosure. If you can go to court and say, I really thought that this would create a deeper rapport with the client, the client validation was really important here. I wanted to share the perspective because they were saying that they felt so alone and so empty about their experience, and I wanted to create some validation for them, or whatever it is, or relatability, or report, like, if it's really for the client and you can come up with the reasons for why it's for the client and why it's, like, conducive to their treatment. Disclosure is okay if it's more about you. And that's why really good supervision is so important when you're coming up as a therapist, because a supervisor should ask you that question of, like, there's something coming up for you with this client. Is there something that you've gone through in your life that might be bringing up this reaction, this desire to share, this irritation, this whatever thing you're struggling with? Could we talk about you for a second without stepping on your therapist's toes? That's called counter transference, and that's something that we really want to look out for, is, am I just sharing to share. Okay, then we shouldn't be sharing.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:43:01]:

This isn't a reciprocal relationship. It's not your time to share. But if you're sharing because you have an intentional reason behind it, that will help your client go for it and don't do it too much. Even if you do have the intentional reason, I think it's helpful, and it has the most impact when it's done really tactfully and really timely, if that makes sense.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:43:21]:

It does. I think that's really helpful. Then there's also sharing on social media. And what do you talk about publicly? Both your own experience and also the experience of your clients? That seems like a more clear line of, to your point earlier. I can talk about myself and my experience, and no one can, like, fight me about that because that's my experience. Right. But if I get on TikTok or Instagram and I'm talking about a session that I had, and I'm talking about a client, that's not okay, right.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:43:53]:

I try to only talk about in my, like, in between sessions that are a little bit more, like, educational. If I hear something over and over and over again over the last, like, three weeks, and I'm talking about or using the same language with multiple, multiple clients, that's when I'll say, maybe more people need to hear this than just the three or so people that I was talking to over the last two weeks. And I'll never say the client said this, and I said this. Like, it's more. So I'm, like, in these overall experiences that I've heard about lately, or when I'm working with clients on X or Y or Z, and it's always, like, more universal topics that I've heard throughout the years of working. And my clients and I have had those conversations of, like, if you ever see anything and you're worried that it's about you, like, please, like, come and talk to me because my answer will be, it's not. Or maybe your experience contributed to this TikTok idea, but I had also talked to four different people about that that week. And again, it's a really universal topic that I'm seeing over and over again.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:44:56]:

Right. That makes sense.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:44:57]:

But that's the risk that you, you run when you create content and you're seeing clients at the same time. Because sometimes it is going to align and it's going to seem like, oh, this video that I actually recorded two weeks ago, and I'm ready to post tomorrow on my content calendar. And then I just had a session with so and so. And they're totally going to think it's about them if they see it. But it really wasn't. It was just an idea that I had. Right. So that's the risk there, definitely.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:45:22]:

And I imagine that's an understanding that the client has coming in as well. Right. Of like, my therapist is a content creator and she's on social media and she may create a video that might feel like something about me. But to your point, if that does come up, creating that safety, to bring it up with you and talk to you about it, I think is super important. You also offer mentoring and consultation with other therapists. I'm curious what the questions that you're getting are from therapy, especially early, early career. What are, like, some of the things that they're struggling with the most?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:46:01]:

I. It's so interesting. That was never my intention, but people just started asking me questions and I was like, I think I need to pay, get paid for my time, if that makes sense. But I. And so I just said, you know, I'm offering business consultations now because I had so many pick your brain conversations that I was like, this could be a thing. We can definitely sit lots of questions into the 45 minutes, and if you want more than one session, we can meet over the course of you, like starting your own practice. I think this podcast is going to be great because a lot of these questions that we've gone over is like, what is actually required? What do I need to have in place? How do I have this conversation with my group practice? What do I need to do to market myself and how should I niche down? And I'll ask, well, what do you love working with and what do you have experience in? And can you pick four things and can we riff together on, like, different types of content that you could create around that. Do you have an Instagram? Do you have a website? You don't have to.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:47:01]:

You don't have to have an Instagram if you don't want to. But if you don't. Let's talk about all the other ways that we're going to reach out to specific different vectors of places that can find you. Referrals for your niche and for the type of client that you want to keep working with. So it's a lot of what we've talked about today, but more on the one on one individualized scale. And I think one of the best things about it, from what I've seen, is the relief that the mentees, it sounds silly to say, these friends that I've now made, that I'm working with, share with me after we have these calls, is, I think a lot of the times, it's just so daunting and it's so hard to think about making a big life shift that if you have someone in your corner that you meet with for a little while that says, okay, here's what I think you should do. Your homework is to go think about these things and apply for this. And here's a name of a good lawyer, and here's where I did this, and here's whatever, whatever.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:48:06]:

And you're going to be fine. You're going to be great. Actually, they have that support of like a group practice as they're making their own and someone to say, this is how I did it. This is how you can do it, too. And even just, I think having the accountability and the structure of a 45 minutes with somebody who they can ask a bunch of questions to. Even though, again, I'm not like painting myself as this expert out here, but I do know some stuff from doing this and I do have a lot of ideas and it's been really fun to do that. And then also do some, like, continuing supervision for licensed clinicians who are like, I still miss having somebody to come to to talk through some of the counter transference or, you know, I'm struggling with this one client and I'm wondering how you would approach it. So some of these business consultations are strictly like the, here's what I am trying to do and how do I do it? And am I doing it okay? Am I doing it the right way? And I'll be like, this is how I did it.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:49:08]:

So I think so, yes. And then some of these calls are, you know, I don't have any experience with eating disorders, so I would love to talk to you about my eating disorder client for 45 minutes and ask you as many questions as they can and ask for resources and referrals. And some of them are just, I really just need a space monthly to talk about my caseload because I'm a solo practitioner and I miss having some support in this way, or I'm looking to maybe expand. I want to know how you had an intern, how you hired somebody, what you did to build up their caseload, like all of the stuff that we've been talking about today. So this podcast is going to be perfect for all these people who are seeking out this information because they think this information is unfortunately sometimes hard to find.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:49:52]:

Love to hear that. And for listeners who want more of Lauren, definitely reach out and schedule a call. A little plug for you there.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:50:00]:

Thank you.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:50:00]:

So you recently shared five tips for private practice on your instagram. I'd love to just read them if that's okay.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:50:07]:

Yeah.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:50:08]:

And then break them down. So the first one is plan your finances for 48 weeks instead of 52. That's two weeks vacation for yourself and two for your clients. So what do you mean, two weeks for your clients?

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:50:23]:

So, like, every client is going to be inconsistent with some cancellations. And I would, I would caveat this with look at your caseload and look at the consistency of each client as well. If your client typically shows up, only three out of the four sessions per month, count however many weeks that is for the year, multiply it by what they pay, and that is probably what you're going to make for the year, and it'll be give or take. And so these numbers were just like what I thought you should start with, with giving yourself two weeks completely unpaid, because if you don't work, you don't get paid in this industry. And two weeks generally for each client that they're going to be on vacation and they're just going to totally cancel and not want to reschedule. And I did these projections for myself really conservatively. So, like, I have a bi weekly client. Obviously, that's then 24 sessions out of the year.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:51:17]:

And then I was like, they're probably going to go on two weeks vacation. And they might have like one or two cancellations too, that they're just going to say, I'll see you in a month, and that's totally fine. That's nothing super common with bi weeklies because usually they can make it work every two weeks or they'll ask for another time because that's kind of like a long time, but with your weeklies. The most consistent person might make it 48 weeks out of the year, but you're probably still going to have like, maybe like 46, 44, if that makes sense. So I started with these numbers just as like a starting point for clinicians, but they have to keep in mind, it's like even if you have 30 weekly clients on the schedule per week, your income is not going to reflect that. So you have to keep that in mind when you set your rate. You have to keep that in mind when you are continuing to work with clients who are really inconsistent. Maybe that client should be a little bit more of a floater and maybe you should have somebody new come into your practice, especially if you're getting inquiries that will commit to a weekly time each week financially for you.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:52:18]:

That's kind of where I was starting with that just to like, give people a better sense of their finances. Once again, I'm not a financial expert and I do not want people to come to me for finance advice, but I think that even just starting there and looking at the caseload that you have overall to see what you might be making helps you to plan for your taxes quarterly, helps you to plan a budget and like your life and what you can afford each month because it's really hard. We don't have a salary. We make what we make based off of what we bring in. And that's kind of like a daunting career to be in, but it's the career that we chose.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:52:57]:

Yeah. What I'm hearing is the numbers aren't necessarily what's important because that's going to be different for everyone. But scheduling that time off, because if you are thinking about what your income is going to be based on how many clients you have on your caseload and youre a fee, if you're not accounting for time off, you're actually over projecting how much money you're going to make. And also I think if you don't plan for that time off, you're more likely not to take it. So build that into your schedule. I think that's super important. Next one is keep your overhead costs as low as possible, track where your best referrals come from, and invest in that the most.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:53:36]:

Yeah. So I am a virtual practice, and that's because New York City rent is insane right now. And I was also hybrid at one point, and I wasn't seeing as many clients as I thought that would want to come back to in person after Covid. And I think so many people have at least like one or two days of work from home flexibility these days. So for me, it doesn't make sense to have an office in a different area. It might be necessary or make a lot of sense to have an office. So even with that, I would say maybe rent an office from someone else to keep those overhead costs as low as possible. Maybe it's, you know, you don't go and rent this space and invest all this money in furniture and design and all these things.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:54:19]:

Like, I think messy action is really important when you're first starting out and with the tracking where your most lucrative referrals are coming from, that the example for that is like, okay, TikTok is the biggest place that I get referrals. So I'm probably, I've not put any money into promoting my practice, really, on social media yet, but I'm probably going to promote a few posts that are specific to my new clinician this month because she's starting in July, and TikTok is where I get the most referrals. Right. If I was getting better referrals from somewhere else, like maybe a local newspaper, for example, I'd probably run an ad in a more traditional sense of the way that. Right. Or Google Ads, maybe some people get a lot of referrals from Google Ads. Okay, great. Keep investing in that.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:55:11]:

Invest more money in that. You know, I'm also paying somebody to do SEO for me right now. So, like, that's what I mean by look at where your inquiries are coming in and put them. That doesn't just mean invest financially, but put the most time and effort into. If getting coffee with people in your network helps you get referrals, get coffee with like 15 people every Friday. That, that's a lot of people. Five people every Friday. But, like, invest your time.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:55:39]:

Invest your money in the places that you're seeing are working for you, because it's going to be different for everybody.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:55:44]:

Next one is, speaking of money, outsource your taxes.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:55:48]:

Don't do it yourself. I was spending so much time doing my taxes myself this year, and I made the decision that I was just going to pay somebody to keep books for me and do everything that I needed. And that was like the best decision ever because they figured out I need an S Corp. They are figuring out what salary I'm going to be paying myself through the business, which was not a thing that I knew I could do. I now can have a 401k for myself as the business owner. All of these things that I would have never known. And I paid so much more when I was doing it myself because I didn't know all of the things that the business owner that you can actually write off, more so than for me. I was like, oh, this had nothing to do with business.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:56:29]:

And they're like, no, no, it did. Actually. We can argue that it did. So we're going to step in from now on and it saves you so, so, so much money.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:56:38]:

I think, obviously I'm biased because that's what we do at heard, but totally agree with that.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:56:44]:

One plunge for you. There you go.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:56:46]:

Exactly. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate that. Wait until you have a waitlist to.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:56:51]:

Hire and maybe this is specific advice for me, but I know for me and my anxiety, that helped me feel like I was going to be able to provide something. Like, I figured if there were 30 people on the waitlist, maybe at least five would convert to a good client. And I've had really, really long wait lists, and that's kind of been the conversion rate. Not safe to say that just because you're getting a lot of emails, that means that each and every person is going to be a good client or a good fit for your person that you're trying to match them with. So I thought that having a sizable waitlist would help me and has helped me continue to be able to hire, but then also say, okay, I'm not going to lay awake at night worrying about filling this person's salary because now I'm responsible for somebody else's living, if that makes sense. So I always tell people, we didn't show, you're in a pretty good spot. Like, you've been getting pretty steady stream of inquiries. You've been full for a while, and then if you bring someone on you, you don't.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:57:58]:

And I know this was the second part of my point. You don't have to have a group practice to have a successful private practice by any means. You just have that waitlist, that's for you ready to go whenever a client drops off and you feel successful and happy. But if you do want to start hiring, I think low and steady is kind of a good way to start with an intern because their first semester, they don't need that many clients. So you can feel a little bit safer to say, I could probably get this person five, right, like, throughout the next few months, and then maybe you double that to ten, and then it's like a little bit of a slow and steady build.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:58:33]:

It really de risks. Right. I actually talked to Michelle Vo yesterday, and what she did was she actually started a waitlist before she even went into private practice. So she still had a w two job. She started promoting that she was going into private practice. She started a waitlist. And then when she went into private practice, she had a full caseload, which I thought was so smart. I've actually never heard a therapist doing that before.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:58:55]:

So you don't even need to wait until, you know, you fill your practice to start a waitlist. You could even start a waitlist before you go into private practice practice if.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:59:04]:

You look at your contract with your w two job and make sure that that's okay, though. So another disclaimer. Make sure that you're not going to get like sued by your current job if you try to do that.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [00:59:16]:

Yep, last one. We've talked about this. Yeah, we've talked about this. Try and stick to boundaries with your schedule and protect your time for notes and admin and self care as well.

‍

Lauren Larkin [00:59:27]:

This is as most of my content is a reminder for me as well. I think I can be a little too flexible with my schedule and I will try and make it work with my clients no matter what, which is, again, a good thing. But at the same time, I think that the more time I have for myself, the more time I have protected on my calendar that I don't offer to clients and I don't always move my stuff that's important for me, for clients, then I'm not building any resentment. And I think it lowers my levels of burnout and helps me to feel like, okay, I am sticking to the things that are important to me and I'm creating safe and amazing spaces for my clients to work on stuff that they need. But that doesn't mean that I have to bend over backwards all of the time just because they have a conflict. Like, I hardly ever take time off or have a conflict myself. I've just started to have more and more lately because of like, this split in business and social and seeing clients and trying to manage it all. But before then, I would, like, hardly ever tell a client that I needed to reschedule.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:00:39]:

So one, I think it's okay to do that. You can take time off and you can reschedule if you need to. But then I think if you have, like, a workout class booked for 09:00 a.m. and a client's asking you to move the session, you don't have to offer the 09:00 a.m. you can offer the other times. And if they can make it work, they can make it work. But don't take away from the time that you have on your calendar to do something that's important for you.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [01:01:03]:

That's really important. I think it goes back to what we were saying earlier about payment as well. I could see the perspective of a therapist feeling like, oh, well, this is the only time that works for them, then I should adjust my schedule for them. But the more that you do that, the more you kind of go down that path towards burnout. So you also plan dinners and meetups and networking events for therapists. Can you talk about why you started doing that?

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:01:30]:

Yes. Okay. So when we talk about all our, all my different lives, I feel like the PR event planner thing could have been a route that I took at some point in my life, and I didn't quite do that fully, but the venture that I was in beforehand, we did some, like, bespoke experiences and things like community building events and things like that. So I feel like I have some skill sets in that area as well. I actually only started it because a bunch of people kept reaching out to me on social when I started saying, hey, I'm so lonely in private practice. Like, are you lonely? And I was like, no, I have too many friends. I'm, like, actually trying to get rid of some. No, I'm just kidding.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:02:13]:

But I was like, I'm, like, overly extroverted and I always have stuff going on. I was like, it would be so fun to get people together that don't feel that way or that are struggling to find people that feel like they're a match for them or just wanting to hang out with other therapists who get what we do because it is so specific. And sometimes you do need friends who are in the same field. Maybe don't work with you directly, but can understand some of these nuances or things that we're talking about. I started that randomly and I have said from the beginning, and I will continue to say forever, these are for fun. Like, they are mostly for making new therapist friends. Of course, there's a networking element that goes into it as well, and organically. There have been some really great collaborations I've seen come out of this and referrals that have been happening through these little connections that have been made of.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:03:10]:

It's been amazing and, like, beyond my thoughts about what it was going to be like, so I try to keep doing them. At one point, I was like, I'm a little burnt from doing this on top of, on top of all the other stuff, but I'm going to do two really small events this summer, which is going to be really fun. We're going to do a core power yoga class, and we're going to leave, like, 15 minutes for, like, saying hello to somebody you've never met before and swapping business cards if you want to bring those. And then we're going to do a little smaller of, like, a rooftop dinner just because the space is a smaller capacity. It's a New York City rooftop, so there's some beauty in that, too, because I think that some people can become, like, a little overwhelmed by the idea if they see it on my instagram. It's like, oh, that looks like a really big room. I don't know if I'd be comfortable going into that. So I'm toying around with a bunch of different ideas and things.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:04:02]:

Like, I might do a retreat in the fall, which would be amazing. Got to see if I can gauge some interest on that. So if you want to go on a retreat with other therapists, also, let me know. But, like, it's just been this fun thing where I don't necessarily need to be, like, selling something all the time. Like, obviously, like, I have a business, and I'm working on that business, but these don't, like, make me any money. Like, I'm going to have to charge for some of them because I'm, like, renting the yoga studio. But, like, these don't do really anything for me. It's more so just, like, I like being able to create this space.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:04:34]:

I like hearing about, oh, you two met at my event, and then you went to dinner two weeks later. That's so cool. I love this so much. So I didn't have any intentions of falling into that, but now people are like, when's the next event? And I'm like, okay, I will find it. I will make it happen for you.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [01:04:53]:

It goes back to what I said earlier about having fun, creating content on social, right? Like, it's gonna attract people because it's authentic, and if you're having fun and throwing events and, like, people are gonna want to participate and be part of that. So I think, just, like, doing things that you enjoy is a good thing, as, you know, basic as that sounds.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:05:16]:

So I've said from the beginning, I'm like, I just want you guys to have fun. If you want me to facilitate something deeper than that, I'll try, but I just want you to talk to people, meet people, have fun. I'll be here in the corner. Sometimes I get overwhelmed and, like, okay, well, I'm gonna go sit down. You guys can jogging to each other. Just kidding, Lauren.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [01:05:36]:

This has been a really incredible conversation. Thank you so much for giving us so much of your time. What's one thing that you want therapists to take away from this episode?

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:05:47]:

One thing I want therapists to take away is the messy action idea. I think that we as therapists, I think a lot of therapists are perfectionists from what I've gleamed from this network that I was just talking about. And I think that as humans, we tend to have a really hard time with starting something and wanting it to be perfect before we start. None of what I've talked about has ever been perfect. I've just created on the messiness of it and rebranded as I go and not, you know, invested much time into things that totally flop and just continuing to try and try and try until I felt like I was starting to, like, hit a stride with certain things. So if I had waited until it was perfect, I would have never started at all because it's still not perfect. And there are things about some of my content. There are things about my website.

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:06:46]:

There are a things that I would change if I looked back on it now. But I'm like, well, it wouldn't be possible if I hadn't just started something. So whether that means putting yourself out there more or starting a private practice, like, those are two really big things. I think that if you just start with something and don't get bogged down by the perfectionism of it and the details of it, unless it's like the legal details, to get bogged down by those, just get going. Just do it.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [01:07:19]:

Love that. And for listeners who are interested in connecting with you, where can they find you?

‍

Lauren Larkin [01:07:24]:

You can find me@leltherapy.com. and leltherapy on TikTok and on Instagram. I don't do DM's because they're very overwhelming to me and that can create an ethical boundary line. So if you're trying to reach me, just actually send me an email. It's not that hard to find a on my website and in my bio.

‍

Michael Fulwiler [01:07:46]:

Great. We'll drop those in the show notes. Thank you, Lauren. Thanks for listening to this episode of Heard Business School, brought to you by Heard, the financial back office for therapists, visit the Heard resource hub at joinheard.com to support you in your journey as a private practice owner. And don't forget to subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you in the next class.